"Real Gamer" Comments

[kinematicecho]

Cohh,
You are one of the few streamers that I have both looked up to and lauded to the people that I know as a solid person who thinks and speaks well and always considers other points of views. Never have I been so shocked as when I was told that you said that anyone who disliked ME:A because of its issues was "Not a Real Gamer." After doing some research, I found that you had, in fact, made those statements and even more concerning was the illogical reasons you gave for that statement and the lack of foresight into why "real gamers" might have an actual argument against purchasing and playing ME:A.

I have posted your comments along with a link at the bottom of this message.

I consider myself a "real gamer". I love games and what they offer and how they present ideas and emotions to us. I play games on a regular basis and even stream occasionally on Twitch. I enjoy a wide range of games like old isometric RPGs like Neverwinter Nights to open world beauties like Horizon: Zero Dawn. I appreciate games for what they bring and try not to judge them for a lack of high graphical fidelity.

That being said, I think that there remains plenty of room to evaluate a product (that is what a game is at the end of the day) and say that the product is poor and not worth the current market value that is being attributed to it. ME:A is a game that in so many ways has been put together badly. It is an unfinished product that should have had more time put into it before hitting the market. The bugginess of this game is clear and evident and yet the publisher still insists on charging the same as a triple A product that comes out in an almost perfect condition.

As a gamer and a consumer, I should have the right to say that game is not worth my money without having my "gamer credentials" called into question.

I thought, of all people, you would have been someone that would have supported me in this.

Instead, I am a small streamer who has publically said, I am not willing to invest MY HARD EARNED CASH into ME:A because of its poor state. And now a very well know and very well-regarded, big streamer has made the public statement that I, and others like me, are not real gamers and should "be into movies or something more surface level." Implying that I am an imposter and that I should stop playing games altogether and go outside.

I hope that this was simply said out of frustration and that you just hadn't thought through this very well.
I hope that this isn't the result of you getting free games and not realizing what an investment gaming is for the rest of us.
I hope that that the blind support of objectively poor products isn't an ongoing trend.

You lost a lot of trust with me. Maybe that doesn't matter to you. I hope it does. I hope you can earn my trust back.

If not, I have received a lot of value out of your shows over the past years and will remember them for what they were.



TRANSCRIPT BELOW

Viewer: What do you think of the animations in ME:A and are they as bad as people are saying?

Cohh: Umm, there are some really good animations in ME:A and there are some really bad animations in ME:A. But I think it is really important to mention that animations and facial lip-syncing (and stuff like that); if that is keeping you away from a game like Mass Effect Andromeda, you need to sit down and reassess your passion for gaming. Cause I’ve already seen people say, “I’m not buying Mass Effect Andromeda because of the animations and lip-syncing.” And it’s like, “Dude, if that’s really what is preventing you from getting the story, the lore, the game mechanics, the combat, the gorgeous planets and environments; like, maybe you’re not really a gamer.”

*Cohh laughs*

Like maybe you should go outside or something cause maybe gaming isn’t for you. Um, because that’s like….. that’s the smallest aspect of a game like that. It is so tiny, SO tiny. And if that is enough to prevent you from playing a game like Mass Effect Andromeda …. Maybe you should be into movies or something a little bit more …surface level. You know what I mean. I don’t know: it’s just…

And, I am not trying to ride on people for that, I am just saying, if that is what is stopping you from experiencing a game like that, you are going to miss so many amazing gaming experiences, thinking that way. You are going to miss so many things.

That’s like listening to one song, deciding you don’t like that song, and swearing off music.

Anyway, I am done. I don’t want to get preachy.

But seriously, that is…animations and facial stuff, that is such a non-factor to actual gamers that it kind of triggers us a little bit when people are like, “I’m not going to get that game because the lip-syncing’s off.”

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129249021?t=2h50m57s

[Serotriptomine]

1st Viewer says "I like sci fi, rpgs, i think i will get this because i am interested in it." end of story.
2nd Viewer says "I like mass effect, I think I will get this because the previous games were interesting. end of story.
3rd Viewer says."I like mass effect, but the animations and lip sync are atrocious so I am not going to buy it until it is fixed. end of story.
4th Viewer says. "Wow wtf is this game? You paid for this? These animations are from 1996 LOL I"m never buying something like this." end of story.
5th Viewer says. "Vote with your wallet, #*** EA for pushing this out too early obviously"

I believe that CohhCarnage was saying the first 2 viewers are gamers, the third is making a personal statement, the 4th is not a gamer, the 5th is making a personal statement.

Now, he was only addressing the 1st, 2nd and 4th types of viewers in his statements. No where did he say if you vote with your wallet. "Refusing to buy a game because in your opinion the developers and or publishers failed to deliver a product worth $59.99, makes you not a gamer."

Also, his reference to going outside and movies was in regards to hyper realism, as well as in regards to if you focus on 2% of a game, and it renders you unable to experience 98% of the game, as the 4th viewer, maybe you should just go outside.. If you are the 4th viewer, and you need everything to be perfect to even PLAY a game. No. You are not an AVID gamer. Remember. A "Gamer" is someone who.. plays games.. a REAL game is someone who... plays games. :p (aka, you cant really say someone isn't a REAL gamer UNLESS they are LITERALLY faking being a 'gamer' [someone who plays games])

A game is a product, entertainment. A Reader? A REAL reader? An AVID reader? You see?
"Man I don't want to read book 3 because people said its shit and the author was sick while writing it so im not going to bother even experiencing it."
"Man I don't want to drive/buy this car until they fix the Radio." Kind of a difference right? Subtle.



I am almost positive if you reread everything in this context you will be assured that he is not referring to you or people like you (the other streamers that put their money where their mouth is to make a statement to EA / Bioware / Mass Effect that sloppy dev and hasty publishing is bullshit and we wont freely advert your product.) as a non gamer.

For instance try plugging in perspective 3 and 5. Cohhs statements don't make much sense. [LOL yer voting with your wallet because MEA has poopy animations LOL dumb] I don't think he said that? :p As I recall he has advocated the one way to persuade big companies like EA IS to vote with your wallet.

As always we are about good vibes here, there's no reason to take anything CohhCarnage says personal, as an attack, bash, etc. He is here working to provide a pleasant viewing experience and Good Show and I am sorry that his words seem to have been mis interpreted to the extent that you had to look into it and post on the forums showing your disappointment. The forums are here for everyone and we appreciate you voicing your concerns / opinions.

[kinematicecho]

I appreciate your response and your attempt to explain what you think may have been Cohh's point.

The problem is that I don't see any of those things in what Cohh actually said and I will try to explain a bit further so that the reason for my complaint is more evident.

Cohh seems to have made a very definitive statement. IF the animations are your reason for not getting the game, THEN you are not a real gamer. It feels very definitive and doesn't recognize the existence of any legitimate argument for why the animations might actually be a reason for not purchasing the game.

Suppose he had responded to the question like this. "When I played through the game and encountered the bad animations, I did not find that they took away from my love of the lore and the world that ME:A presented and think that there is still enough value in the game to warrant the 60 dollar price tag."

Instead of creating a positive argument for why one should buy the game, he attacked anyone who refused to buy the game because of animation issues. It felt very condescending and close-minded. It was the opposite of open, inviting, and understanding.

No, I do not have to have a game be perfect to play it. I have played many games in the past that were not so, and am even playing Alpha Protocol right now which has some very obvious issues. The problem with the animations in ME:A is that they are so pervasive and do so much to take you out of the story that you are trying to enjoy (or maybe you are trying to admire the scenery and the entire mountain you are looking at disappears, reappears, disappears again) that it warrants criticism.

Let me refer to your book analogy. I love books. I have several thousand books in my home and would consider myself an avid reader.

Let's suppose a book came out. It was the continuation of a series that I love. The story is good. The plot is good. The only problem is that the book is riddled with misspellings, typos, and sometimes the letters are missing some ink. Is it still readable? Yes. As someone who reads regularly and enjoys books do I want to put up with a product that delivers itself in such a messy, poor way? No.

Are animations a small part of a game? Yes. But they are the building blocks through which story, gameplay, and everything else in the game is presented. If they are bad, they fundamentally impact how everything else is presented.

And holding that view seems to make me "not a real gamer" because if I were, I would put up with it to play the game. I don't buy that argument at all...

Cohh said that animations are "such a non-factor to REAL gamers". So I am not a "real" gamer (or as you put it, an "avid" gamer) just because I don't want to put money into a product that is fundamentally flawed? There are so many games right now that aren't broken like Mass Effect. Why would I want to spend my money on an inferior product?

I don't see how your defense lines up with what Cohh actually said. Maybe that is my fault and I am reading too much into the comments because I am upset.

But maybe there is something fundamentally flawed with what Cohh said.

I don't even see how "real gamer" can be used by someone like Cohh. Is someone who plays mobile only games not a "real gamer"? What about someone who plays board games and not video games? What about someone who only likes point and click adventures?

What makes a "real gamer" anyway. I doubt that there would be any consensus on a definition among gamers. The argument that Cohh made seems really short-sighted and closed-minded...

[Serotriptomine]

You're taking his statement the wrong way my opinion which leaves you open to bring in these other examples such as mobile gamers. I do not see him as having said it the way you believe, so all of these examples are arbitrary to my point. He did not say it with his chin up, scoffing at people.